1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:02,000 I 2 00:00:30,000 --> 00:00:32,000 I 3 00:01:00,000 --> 00:01:02,000 I 4 00:01:13,960 --> 00:01:22,600 Think we started to see those white following actually in the very beginning I noticed a bright light in the sky 5 00:01:30,640 --> 00:01:34,640 We thought it was a play so we start the cat again out to look at it 6 00:01:34,640 --> 00:01:38,720 And that's where it changed direction and started coming in towards us 7 00:01:40,000 --> 00:01:45,000 I'm trying to attract attention with this crap. I'm telling it come on in 8 00:01:45,280 --> 00:01:48,400 Hi, I got the window down. I'm yelling to hi 9 00:02:00,000 --> 00:02:02,000 I 10 00:02:07,320 --> 00:02:12,360 Know that boy he left the top of the mountain came out over the highway and stopped 11 00:02:13,080 --> 00:02:21,200 In the middle of directly in front of us body got out through the binoculars in an attempt to identify the craft and when he looked up 12 00:02:22,040 --> 00:02:26,400 He saw a circular window and he saw these rims 13 00:02:27,120 --> 00:02:31,120 Standing behind the window looking down at him and he became frightened 14 00:02:31,760 --> 00:02:35,520 Ran back to the car saying he thought they were trying to capture him 15 00:02:35,520 --> 00:02:40,880 He was feeding down the highway to avoid capture and by me turned off onto a side road 16 00:02:41,280 --> 00:02:45,040 And here with a group of men you'd seen all the crap 17 00:02:45,800 --> 00:02:49,240 Standing in the middle of this road blocking my way 18 00:02:50,000 --> 00:02:52,200 And naturally get to stop the car 19 00:02:53,080 --> 00:02:56,840 And they came up in two groups because out of the car 20 00:03:02,120 --> 00:03:05,800 There's nothing on earth quite like the white mountains of New Hampshire 21 00:03:06,680 --> 00:03:09,560 beautiful and rugged endless forest and rock 22 00:03:10,240 --> 00:03:12,720 Star contrasts everywhere you look 23 00:03:17,040 --> 00:03:19,040 On September 20th 24 00:03:19,160 --> 00:03:25,960 1661 Betty and Barney Hill claim they were abducted by a UFO and in the waning years since the event they've become 25 00:03:26,440 --> 00:03:28,440 ufological icons 26 00:03:31,440 --> 00:03:38,640 We've come to the white mountains to experience a place with a rich history of UFO sightings that stretches back into the 1800s 27 00:03:39,600 --> 00:03:45,840 Amongst the crew with us for this trip are Alexander Petikoff and skeptically-minded investigator Adam Dugan 28 00:03:49,520 --> 00:03:53,200 I've avoided looking too deeply into the abduction side of the subject 29 00:03:54,080 --> 00:04:02,240 Maybe because I just didn't find the time or maybe because deep down I'm aware there's something so primal and terrifying about it 30 00:04:03,280 --> 00:04:11,120 People around the world have claimed for centuries to have been taken aboard craft of unknown origin and been mutilated maimed and experimented upon 31 00:04:11,840 --> 00:04:13,840 If 32 00:04:16,960 --> 00:04:21,840 I'm going to look into this topic then there's no better place to start than where it all began 33 00:04:41,120 --> 00:04:43,120 So 34 00:05:11,120 --> 00:05:13,120 So 35 00:05:41,120 --> 00:06:00,480 The white mountains are a part of the Appalachian mountain range that covers almost a quarter of the state in New Hampshire and stretch into Maine 36 00:06:01,360 --> 00:06:05,600 It's home to Mount Washington the highest peak in the northeastern United States 37 00:06:06,240 --> 00:06:10,880 By far this region's most infamous 38 00:06:11,440 --> 00:06:18,720 Ufological event was the Betty and Barney Hill abduction which occurred just down the street from Franconia where we're staying while in the area 39 00:06:19,360 --> 00:06:22,960 They had larger eyes than ours smaller nose 40 00:06:23,680 --> 00:06:30,400 smaller mouth no protruding part of the ear and no hair I was taken into this terrestrial and 41 00:06:30,960 --> 00:06:35,120 It was quite bare and it was a small table. It was a stool 42 00:06:35,600 --> 00:06:43,120 They put me on the stool checked my eyes ears nose throat my feet my hands and then 43 00:06:43,920 --> 00:06:47,440 He put me on a table said they were going to check my nervous system 44 00:06:47,520 --> 00:06:52,240 And then he tried to insert a needle like instrument in my navel which caused pain 45 00:06:52,880 --> 00:06:56,960 Then the examinal left her and into the room of Barney was with Barney 46 00:06:57,280 --> 00:07:02,080 Most of the exam was the same as mine except they were interested in his bone structure 47 00:07:02,400 --> 00:07:05,200 I mean they were feeling all up and down his spine 48 00:07:05,680 --> 00:07:07,280 his limbs 49 00:07:07,280 --> 00:07:09,280 basically 50 00:07:10,000 --> 00:07:13,680 There's a whole subset of people within ufology who 51 00:07:15,360 --> 00:07:21,280 support believe in and and write about research the large number of cases of 52 00:07:21,920 --> 00:07:23,920 Abductees and when I use that term 53 00:07:24,320 --> 00:07:28,960 What that means is that it's someone who claims that they have been abducted 54 00:07:29,680 --> 00:07:32,560 by aliens sometimes on more than one occasion 55 00:07:33,200 --> 00:07:35,200 and typically 56 00:07:35,280 --> 00:07:37,280 studied physically 57 00:07:37,280 --> 00:07:41,520 With medical examinations and so forth in terms of abductions 58 00:07:41,760 --> 00:07:45,200 I think it's an area of these phenomena that 59 00:07:45,840 --> 00:07:51,040 Many people aren't willing to go to or to face the fact that it's happening again 60 00:07:51,600 --> 00:07:56,720 Now recently uh kind of scared you know, I thought maybe this was something 61 00:07:57,440 --> 00:08:02,560 That happened at one point in time and it was just a weird phenomenon that was occurring 62 00:08:03,040 --> 00:08:07,680 And uh that we'd never deal with it again. It's a really dark path. There are 63 00:08:08,480 --> 00:08:14,720 Thousands if not and I think most likely hundreds of thousands of people across well right here in the united states itself 64 00:08:15,200 --> 00:08:18,720 Who believe that they've had experiences with aliens? 65 00:08:18,800 --> 00:08:20,800 It's kind of where the contactee movement went 66 00:08:21,360 --> 00:08:27,360 Where as opposed to just messages these people feel that they are being taken into a craft that 67 00:08:27,440 --> 00:08:32,720 Metalical experiments are being done on them and then they're being dropped off again 68 00:08:33,280 --> 00:08:37,120 I was probably I was one of the first in the country to investigate alleged abduction cases 69 00:08:37,440 --> 00:08:40,080 We had numerous reports around western pennsylvania 70 00:08:40,560 --> 00:08:47,520 We could have spent full time working on just abduction reports because you can spend weeks and months and years on one case 71 00:08:47,680 --> 00:08:48,480 And we have 72 00:08:48,480 --> 00:08:52,000 Multitudes of reports coming out all the time. So we did the best we could 73 00:08:53,040 --> 00:08:54,160 to my 74 00:08:54,160 --> 00:08:55,920 you know 75 00:08:55,920 --> 00:08:59,920 My way of looking at things. It's betty and barney hill and their case 76 00:09:00,640 --> 00:09:04,320 That really introduces the idea of an involuntary 77 00:09:05,280 --> 00:09:07,280 period of time where you're 78 00:09:07,360 --> 00:09:08,800 experimented upon 79 00:09:08,800 --> 00:09:14,880 Shown various things and then taken back to your normal life with some sort of missing time 80 00:09:16,640 --> 00:09:22,080 Betty and barney hill's experience opened the door for a flood of similar reports to begin coming in 81 00:09:23,040 --> 00:09:28,720 Where previously encounters with aliens had been relegated to the accounts of those in the contactee movement 82 00:09:29,360 --> 00:09:35,520 There was now another way for those who claimed experiences with extraterrestrials to quantify it for the general public 83 00:09:36,480 --> 00:09:43,440 The hills reported physical and emotional ramifications that flew in the face of the typically benevolent space brothers 84 00:09:43,600 --> 00:09:45,600 encountered by contactees 85 00:09:45,680 --> 00:09:51,040 And seemed to point toward a force that approached humanity with detached clinical precision 86 00:09:52,320 --> 00:09:58,880 Despite the popularity of the hill's story it would be decades before the abductee phase of ufology really kicked off 87 00:09:59,600 --> 00:10:06,320 In the meantime investigators and researchers began to look at some historical reports in the context of a post abduction world 88 00:10:07,440 --> 00:10:12,000 There was a very important I think in in famous case, which is the 89 00:10:13,440 --> 00:10:16,400 James Everill case 1638 down in 90 00:10:17,120 --> 00:10:20,720 Along the child's river the muddy river in Cambridge Boston area 91 00:10:20,880 --> 00:10:24,880 And it was a case where uh, James Everill he and two others went out one night 92 00:10:25,040 --> 00:10:28,880 And they went down river they're going to go out and inspect hides that had come in on the boat in a lighter 93 00:10:28,880 --> 00:10:32,160 Which is a small public like a rowboat type device to get out 94 00:10:32,320 --> 00:10:36,480 And what was curious is as the light was seen over child's town that night 95 00:10:36,960 --> 00:10:38,960 That was in the shape of uh 96 00:10:39,040 --> 00:10:44,800 And they called the shape of the swine which is interest is a green light that ran two and fourth back from child's town over Boston 97 00:10:45,760 --> 00:10:48,880 Down towards water town and the only thing I can think of that shape 98 00:10:48,880 --> 00:10:54,400 It's obviously a cigar redurgeable shape the most interesting part of it was is that this took place for 99 00:10:55,520 --> 00:11:01,760 Over two hours apparently because James Everill mentioned that he and his two companions two hours later after seeing the green light 100 00:11:02,400 --> 00:11:06,240 Found themselves up back where they'd begun their journey against the tide 101 00:11:06,320 --> 00:11:08,640 I mean this is what the tide would say like outgoing 102 00:11:09,200 --> 00:11:12,880 And now two hours later after seeing this they're they're back where they started 103 00:11:13,280 --> 00:11:15,280 Against that 104 00:11:15,440 --> 00:11:17,440 It almost seems like a very early 105 00:11:17,440 --> 00:11:21,600 I think it's a I think it's a classic thing of two hours of missing time 106 00:11:21,680 --> 00:11:25,680 What we would call today like with Betty and Bonnie Hill and on alien on alien abduction 107 00:11:26,240 --> 00:11:32,640 The thing that I find the most compelling about it really is that we can again tie this into 108 00:11:33,520 --> 00:11:34,560 historical accounts 109 00:11:34,560 --> 00:11:42,160 Del back into folklore and look at the concept that you know in early days people in Europe talked about the fey and 110 00:11:42,880 --> 00:11:44,880 They described 111 00:11:44,960 --> 00:11:47,520 Abduction stories. Oh, I met these little people 112 00:11:48,560 --> 00:11:50,560 and I had 113 00:11:50,640 --> 00:11:54,160 A visit with them and their banquet hall and then when I came back 114 00:11:54,240 --> 00:11:57,120 I thought I had been gone two hours, but it was three days 115 00:11:57,200 --> 00:12:06,240 So oftentimes people will point towards UFO stories or abduction stories being incredibly similar to fey or fairy stories 116 00:12:06,400 --> 00:12:08,400 That we have from the British Isles 117 00:12:08,720 --> 00:12:12,720 One of the ways that this comes out is through what they call changeling stories 118 00:12:12,960 --> 00:12:18,240 Which is where fairies come in the night to replace the baby of a woman who was recently given birth 119 00:12:18,560 --> 00:12:21,680 And the woman knows that it's not her child either 120 00:12:21,680 --> 00:12:26,800 It's crying all the time or the baby was crying all the time and now it's completely silent like behaviorally 121 00:12:26,880 --> 00:12:30,000 The child is different and without an explanation for that 122 00:12:30,080 --> 00:12:33,280 She offers up the idea that it's a changeling more often than not 123 00:12:33,280 --> 00:12:34,720 This is a very poor end for the child 124 00:12:34,720 --> 00:12:39,040 Whereas than abandoned in the woods for example because the mother knows beyond a shadow of a doubt 125 00:12:39,040 --> 00:12:41,760 It is not her child. Instead. It's a child of the fey 126 00:12:42,240 --> 00:12:46,080 There are some old abduction cases, but they're very rare 127 00:12:46,560 --> 00:12:53,760 And what you get far more often in the cases of even like the airship run the airship flaps 128 00:12:54,080 --> 00:12:58,880 There was a sense in which people could interact with the occupants of those vehicles to these 129 00:12:59,440 --> 00:13:04,320 Strange ships, whatever they were would occasionally land and people would be invited to come on board and 130 00:13:05,040 --> 00:13:07,440 Even tour the facilities as it were 131 00:13:08,000 --> 00:13:13,280 So it really isn't until much later that these start to become a situation where 132 00:13:14,080 --> 00:13:16,480 The abductee is taken against their will 133 00:13:17,120 --> 00:13:20,080 I remember one case and this would have been north of Pittsburgh 134 00:13:20,240 --> 00:13:25,840 But I did have an opportunity to go up and interview this person because this always stuck with me and this is probably late 1960s 135 00:13:26,000 --> 00:13:31,280 This fellow would get up early during the night early morning hours and would go out in the middle of woods 136 00:13:31,840 --> 00:13:35,120 And allegedly was going aboard this object 137 00:13:35,120 --> 00:13:39,120 It was land or on the ground and had various types of physical experiments and whatever going on 138 00:13:39,440 --> 00:13:45,520 One thing I remember him mentioning what these little creatures looked like and he said they looked like pillsbury dough boys 139 00:13:46,080 --> 00:13:50,720 And I always thought it was such a great description because that was long before you were really hearing much about 140 00:13:50,960 --> 00:13:55,680 The grays and these small humanoid creatures the general public didn't know a lot about it back then 141 00:13:56,080 --> 00:13:58,080 I 142 00:13:59,600 --> 00:14:04,080 In the late 80s and early 90s the abduction phenomenon was pushed into the spotlight 143 00:14:04,240 --> 00:14:09,600 Thanks to books like communion movies like fire in the sky and television shows like the x-files 144 00:14:11,520 --> 00:14:15,440 Travis waltons purported abduction while in the forests of eastern Arizona 145 00:14:15,760 --> 00:14:22,800 Was in the limelight for years and may have helped to push pop culture even further into embracing a subject that had been overlooked 146 00:14:22,880 --> 00:14:24,880 since the hills 147 00:14:25,040 --> 00:14:30,800 Mostly pop culture portrayed abductions in the ways the hills or walton relayed their own experiences 148 00:14:31,120 --> 00:14:35,280 With strange lights coming to take victims into the air where they were inevitably 149 00:14:36,080 --> 00:14:38,960 Experimented on in an increasingly grisly fashion 150 00:14:40,160 --> 00:14:43,360 Despite what hollywood was saying this wasn't the encounter that all 151 00:14:44,000 --> 00:14:49,280 Experiencers claim to have and very often the contact seemed to defy rational explanation 152 00:14:50,160 --> 00:14:56,880 In many instances the events were so bizarre. They left the victim believing that it was little more than a surrealist nightmare 153 00:14:58,560 --> 00:15:03,680 Donovan smith believes he experienced something that defies explanation when he was just a kid 154 00:15:04,240 --> 00:15:07,120 And that the event points to an abduction experience 155 00:15:08,000 --> 00:15:12,160 Despite taking place decades ago. The event still affects him deeply today 156 00:15:12,880 --> 00:15:16,800 But has left him wondering if maybe he didn't simply dream the whole thing up 157 00:15:17,760 --> 00:15:20,720 Well, it was around 91 to 92 158 00:15:21,200 --> 00:15:26,000 I was it was late night. I was uh sleeping. I woke up. I had to use the restroom 159 00:15:26,480 --> 00:15:30,240 We had three bedrooms and we had three kids. So two of us had to share a bedroom 160 00:15:30,240 --> 00:15:33,520 So we had bunk beds in one of the rooms. I'm gonna happen to be sleeping on the bottom bunk 161 00:15:34,160 --> 00:15:38,640 And uh one night I woke up and I swung my feet over the side of the bed and I was just sitting there 162 00:15:39,040 --> 00:15:45,200 I looked down and there was nothing and I looked back up and I went to go stand up and I couldn't stand up for some reason 163 00:15:45,600 --> 00:15:47,280 So I looked back down 164 00:15:47,280 --> 00:15:54,480 And when I looked down I saw what appeared to be like green mist some kind of green greenish mist pretty solid 165 00:15:55,200 --> 00:15:59,680 And it was swirling around my feet and so I tried to stand up and I couldn't and I you know 166 00:15:59,680 --> 00:16:02,320 I figured it's probably because of the mist or whatever 167 00:16:02,800 --> 00:16:05,680 And I didn't know what it was and it looked like it was coming from underneath my bed 168 00:16:05,920 --> 00:16:08,320 When it was around my ankles it looked almost like 169 00:16:08,720 --> 00:16:13,280 Shackles almost kind of because it was more solid in the middle like it was all connected as one big thing 170 00:16:13,760 --> 00:16:16,400 And then the next thing I know I just I looked up again 171 00:16:16,480 --> 00:16:21,200 Look back down the stuff was gone and I could stand up and after that I got really nervous 172 00:16:21,200 --> 00:16:23,280 So I wouldn't use the restroom when I came back 173 00:16:23,360 --> 00:16:28,080 I was so scared that I jumped onto my bed because I didn't want to get my feet anywhere near the bottom of the bed 174 00:16:28,160 --> 00:16:32,320 Because I didn't know if something you know was underneath the bed or what it might have been 175 00:16:33,200 --> 00:16:34,560 About a day or two later 176 00:16:34,560 --> 00:16:39,040 There was a kid in my neighborhood who told me that he saw a big black triangle 177 00:16:39,280 --> 00:16:44,480 Looking in the spaceship in the in the sky and he said that I had lights that looked like a v-shape 178 00:16:44,560 --> 00:16:49,760 I'm not sure if it was what when he saw but it was around that exact time that that stuff happened to me 179 00:16:50,160 --> 00:16:53,280 You know, it's one of those things where it's like you always look back and you're like, you know 180 00:16:53,920 --> 00:16:59,360 Did it really happen? Was it real? But you know, it's so vivid in my memory. I see the picture, you know 181 00:17:00,080 --> 00:17:03,840 I could see it clear as day every time, you know every time I think about it 182 00:17:03,920 --> 00:17:08,560 So this is where a folklorist will take a step back and they'll apply two different theories 183 00:17:08,800 --> 00:17:12,080 The first is called the cultural source hypothesis theory 184 00:17:12,880 --> 00:17:18,640 Which is a theoretical perspective where people who have had experiences of the supernatural 185 00:17:18,960 --> 00:17:26,000 Are formulating their stories or their experiences solely based on a cultural understanding of what that should look like 186 00:17:26,640 --> 00:17:29,040 experiential source hypothesis is the 187 00:17:29,280 --> 00:17:35,520 Almost exact opposite of that where it says that people might have a minor cultural awareness of supernatural 188 00:17:36,080 --> 00:17:41,680 Phenomenon, but instead when they're sharing their stories, it's based on something that actually happened to them 189 00:17:41,840 --> 00:17:49,760 That's unexplainable. We don't know what it is. So it's not necessarily saying a UFO is an alien spaceship 190 00:17:50,080 --> 00:17:53,200 But instead what it's saying is that the UFO is something unidentified 191 00:17:53,280 --> 00:17:58,160 It's something they don't know what it is and when they talk about their story of seeing that or being abducted 192 00:17:58,560 --> 00:18:04,240 Or having any type of contact with that their story is formulated based on their experience 193 00:18:04,480 --> 00:18:10,240 I think we should have scientists and especially psychologists looking at this to figure out is this just mental 194 00:18:10,560 --> 00:18:13,200 Is there a physical sign to it? What's going on here? 195 00:18:14,240 --> 00:18:16,240 even if it is just kind of a 196 00:18:17,920 --> 00:18:24,000 Emotional manifestation that happens, you know, why is that do these people need to be treated? What's going on here? 197 00:18:24,720 --> 00:18:28,800 Traveling the seemingly serene landscapes of some sections of the white mountains 198 00:18:29,280 --> 00:18:35,280 Gives me a greater appreciation for how alone and isolated the hills must have felt back in 1961 199 00:18:36,400 --> 00:18:43,780 Here you're never very close to any real signs of civilization and even during the daylight hours you get a sense of isolation 200 00:18:44,800 --> 00:18:49,360 It's chilling to think about traveling these same roads late at night almost 60 years ago 201 00:18:49,680 --> 00:18:55,600 Before there were even the modest houses gas stations and villages that have grown up around the area since 202 00:18:57,600 --> 00:19:00,000 The hills abduction set the stage for many 203 00:19:00,240 --> 00:19:06,800 Experiences to come forward with their own encounters, but it also helped establish tropes that have been reported ever since 204 00:19:07,680 --> 00:19:14,720 From physical after effects like scars and markings on abductees to supposed alien implants recovered from those taken 205 00:19:15,120 --> 00:19:18,960 The phenomenon has continued to grow only stranger in the waning years 206 00:19:19,840 --> 00:19:24,080 This includes the theories as to why people are being abducted to begin with 207 00:19:25,520 --> 00:19:27,520 People who are 208 00:19:27,600 --> 00:19:32,480 Experiences talk very frequently about the idea of hybrid alien human children 209 00:19:33,120 --> 00:19:35,120 Especially male and female 210 00:19:35,600 --> 00:19:37,600 Experiences will say that their 211 00:19:38,400 --> 00:19:42,720 Biological anatomy has been utilized for the production of a hybrid child 212 00:19:43,120 --> 00:19:46,800 There are some that even feel that they have been 213 00:19:47,280 --> 00:19:51,680 For women impregnated or for men that that semen samples have been taken 214 00:19:52,240 --> 00:19:56,480 And then a step beyond that is there's a group of people who believe they've had children 215 00:19:56,880 --> 00:20:02,320 That they believe are hybrid children that they're showing on these spacecraft and things like this 216 00:20:02,480 --> 00:20:08,000 So when we talk about conspiracy theories, there's one other one that we should probably touch on that is 217 00:20:08,800 --> 00:20:14,080 the conspiracy involved with alien abduction and the idea that 218 00:20:15,040 --> 00:20:17,680 Aliens are running some kind of a 219 00:20:18,880 --> 00:20:23,360 breeding program or a hybridization program and it's this concept that 220 00:20:24,720 --> 00:20:26,720 There's either something 221 00:20:27,520 --> 00:20:33,200 Wrong with the genetics of this alien race or they want to possibly invade our world 222 00:20:33,680 --> 00:20:38,000 In a more insidious way by creating alien human hybrids 223 00:20:38,480 --> 00:20:47,440 Locations were a high volume of ufo sightings come in are frequently associated with abductions 224 00:20:47,840 --> 00:20:50,640 And nowhere is this more prevalent than the Hudson valley 225 00:20:51,680 --> 00:20:57,760 During the 1980s and 90s a string of triangular ufo reports flooded in from around the area 226 00:20:58,880 --> 00:21:04,240 The Hudson valley flaps connection with famed abductee wittley stripper is often overlooked 227 00:21:04,480 --> 00:21:11,200 But stripper was living in the pine bush area of the valley in 1985 when the events that went on to inform his best-selling 228 00:21:11,600 --> 00:21:13,840 Abductee recounting communion was written 229 00:21:14,720 --> 00:21:20,080 Stripper wasn't the only witness having contact with the pilots of the craft seen around the area at the time 230 00:21:21,520 --> 00:21:26,000 When I first started my research, I really expected that 231 00:21:26,640 --> 00:21:28,480 99 percent 232 00:21:28,480 --> 00:21:32,640 Of the stories would be I saw distant light in the sky 233 00:21:33,280 --> 00:21:38,880 The largest chapter in my book turned out to be abductions more often than not 234 00:21:39,200 --> 00:21:41,280 I don't I don't have a percentage for you 235 00:21:42,000 --> 00:21:45,280 But I think the majority of these close 236 00:21:46,080 --> 00:21:49,280 sightings ended up in some sort of missing time 237 00:21:50,160 --> 00:21:55,040 In some sort of contactee experience or just out and out abductions 238 00:21:55,680 --> 00:22:02,000 It was rampant particularly in the 1980s. I I remember I I saw this object 239 00:22:03,600 --> 00:22:09,440 We lived by a quarry. So there was like a mountaintop at the end of my road 240 00:22:10,160 --> 00:22:12,160 And I saw a craft there 241 00:22:12,720 --> 00:22:14,720 And the daytime when I was a little boy 242 00:22:15,360 --> 00:22:19,200 You know, my whole childhood growing up. I had these experiences and 243 00:22:20,080 --> 00:22:24,080 I saw this craft over the trap rock and the 244 00:22:26,000 --> 00:22:28,000 I told my father at one point and 245 00:22:28,880 --> 00:22:32,560 We walked up there. He took me by the hand and walked up the road and 246 00:22:33,120 --> 00:22:37,360 He sent me back home because I couldn't climb up the mountain and I don't know what he was 247 00:22:38,240 --> 00:22:41,040 Going up there for really, I guess he saw it too 248 00:22:41,760 --> 00:22:45,680 You know, I went back home. I'm not really sure if I went back home by myself 249 00:22:46,400 --> 00:22:48,400 our way to for him to come down or 250 00:22:48,720 --> 00:22:53,920 Or what but different things happened to me through my life at different periods 251 00:22:54,800 --> 00:22:55,760 and 252 00:22:55,840 --> 00:22:57,840 We moved from the house 253 00:22:58,240 --> 00:23:01,520 I think when I was about 10 years old, we moved from world to 254 00:23:02,240 --> 00:23:06,560 Another town and I don't remember any experiences happening until 255 00:23:07,680 --> 00:23:10,960 I got married and I moved I moved up here 256 00:23:11,920 --> 00:23:13,440 one night 257 00:23:13,440 --> 00:23:15,440 I went to the store to get 258 00:23:16,080 --> 00:23:20,800 Some beer as a Friday night. I kept getting this feeling to go out 259 00:23:22,480 --> 00:23:24,480 To go out to the store 260 00:23:24,560 --> 00:23:27,840 I didn't really want to go out. It was like one of the coldest nights of the winter 261 00:23:28,240 --> 00:23:30,720 I remember seeing these lights moving through the woods 262 00:23:31,440 --> 00:23:35,920 That night I went down this bank road the store is about 10 minutes away 263 00:23:36,640 --> 00:23:40,160 And as I made a right to follow this ridge that 264 00:23:41,200 --> 00:23:42,880 this craft was 265 00:23:42,880 --> 00:23:45,120 kind of appeared over the ridge and it 266 00:23:45,840 --> 00:23:47,840 Kept paced with my car 267 00:23:47,920 --> 00:23:51,280 As I drove along and I kept looking up at it and it was just 268 00:23:51,920 --> 00:23:55,600 Moving with me over the trees and at one point I came 269 00:23:56,800 --> 00:23:58,800 Around a turn and it was down 270 00:23:59,840 --> 00:24:01,280 on the ground 271 00:24:01,280 --> 00:24:02,880 this big light 272 00:24:02,880 --> 00:24:06,880 And it looked like a big egg of shape, you know, but it was house size 273 00:24:08,080 --> 00:24:10,080 and there was 274 00:24:10,160 --> 00:24:12,160 Miss swirling all around it 275 00:24:12,480 --> 00:24:18,320 And I just think we remember and I remember just having this feeling come over my body 276 00:24:18,880 --> 00:24:22,640 Started tingling and all my hair is like standing up and 277 00:24:23,760 --> 00:24:28,320 The next thing I knew I I started my vehicle and drove off 278 00:24:29,120 --> 00:24:32,880 And I so I went down to the store and I got there. It was midnight 279 00:24:33,520 --> 00:24:35,680 And I'd left the house about 10 o'clock 280 00:24:36,240 --> 00:24:40,640 And anyway, I got some beer and I went home. I didn't drink it because it was too late 281 00:24:41,600 --> 00:24:44,400 Already, but I went home. My wife was hysterical 282 00:24:44,640 --> 00:24:50,320 Were there physical effects from any of this that you can talk about her? 283 00:24:50,320 --> 00:24:54,800 Well after after that event, I don't know if it was the same night 284 00:24:56,160 --> 00:25:01,600 Um, because think a lot of things started happening after I had that encounter there on the road 285 00:25:02,480 --> 00:25:10,640 Um, but one morning I woke up and there was dried blood coming out of my nose. It was all over dried all over my face 286 00:25:11,600 --> 00:25:18,800 Um, scoops in the back of my neck here that you can put your finger in actually it shaped in a triangle 287 00:25:19,760 --> 00:25:21,760 Any idea what was going on with 288 00:25:21,840 --> 00:25:24,000 You know your nose or anything? No 289 00:25:24,960 --> 00:25:26,960 but years later, uh 290 00:25:27,680 --> 00:25:32,480 I had triplets and one morning when I went in to to 291 00:25:33,600 --> 00:25:35,600 Say goodbye to them 292 00:25:36,560 --> 00:25:40,640 They all had blood coming out of their nose, you know, they were sleeping 293 00:25:40,640 --> 00:25:44,480 But all of them had blood dried on their face coming out of their nose 294 00:25:45,040 --> 00:25:47,760 Like what had happened to me as an adult, but 295 00:25:49,040 --> 00:25:55,200 On many cases all kinds of physical effects ill feeling the classic nosebleeds 296 00:25:55,760 --> 00:25:57,760 scoop marks 297 00:25:57,760 --> 00:26:03,520 There was a whole variety of it. I I have not gotten a lot of I was on a table in a 298 00:26:04,400 --> 00:26:07,120 In a craft type thing mostly 299 00:26:07,840 --> 00:26:12,160 I don't know what just happened to the last two hours and then it happened to my brother 300 00:26:12,640 --> 00:26:16,880 And I found out that my child is now experiencing it. So 301 00:26:17,840 --> 00:26:19,840 A lot of abduction experiences 302 00:26:20,480 --> 00:26:22,480 many many multi-generational 303 00:26:23,120 --> 00:26:32,160 Experiences as well. I remember speaking to the first abductee face-to-face. I ever did and her husband sitting next door and 304 00:26:34,000 --> 00:26:37,360 He was holding her hand so tight as she was recalling her 305 00:26:37,920 --> 00:26:42,880 Abduction experience to me and she was just falling her eyes out with hers being so traumatic 306 00:26:42,960 --> 00:26:46,560 Was it an ongoing situation or just a one-time event? 307 00:26:47,600 --> 00:26:49,600 It started as a one-time event 308 00:26:50,320 --> 00:26:52,000 until 309 00:26:52,000 --> 00:26:56,160 She started having reoccurring dreams that other things had happened 310 00:26:56,800 --> 00:26:58,640 whether or not those 311 00:26:58,640 --> 00:27:02,880 Dreams or those memories are real or not. I can't say but 312 00:27:03,440 --> 00:27:04,880 she 313 00:27:04,880 --> 00:27:06,880 believes it was ongoing 314 00:27:07,680 --> 00:27:12,480 What do you do you think there's any time with uh genetic backgrounds certain non-syn families? 315 00:27:12,640 --> 00:27:17,200 The idea that the abduction phenomenon um has some sort of 316 00:27:18,080 --> 00:27:21,760 relation to lineage or ancestry or even bloodlines is 317 00:27:22,480 --> 00:27:23,920 Very fascinating 318 00:27:23,920 --> 00:27:29,920 When you do look at it a lot of these people who are claiming to have been abducted do have similar blood types 319 00:27:30,080 --> 00:27:34,960 Or it runs in the family you hear the grandpa had an experience the dad the daughter 320 00:27:35,840 --> 00:27:37,840 There could be something to that 321 00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:46,800 While I've begun investigating this topic from the perspective that people need to return to the 322 00:27:47,280 --> 00:27:49,680 Optimism that led the way in the earliest days of research 323 00:27:50,080 --> 00:27:54,000 I can't help but see why some approach the subject with such hesitance 324 00:27:54,880 --> 00:27:57,680 The abduction phenomenon has thrown a wrench into the works 325 00:27:57,920 --> 00:28:03,440 That makes me question if I even want to look into a phenomenon that can so quickly turn on innocent people 326 00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:12,560 One interesting side note is that some purported abductees don't have the same type of negative experience that many of those taken claim to have 327 00:28:13,360 --> 00:28:17,040 In fact, some believe the experience to be overwhelmingly positive 328 00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:24,640 Whatever the case might be an experiencer seems to undergo a traumatic event that never fades from their memory 329 00:28:24,960 --> 00:28:30,560 And can have lingering effects that negatively or positively impact the rest of their lives 330 00:28:31,680 --> 00:28:35,680 There are a lot of people that are making these claims and these people are not just all 331 00:28:36,320 --> 00:28:42,720 Weirdos some of these people are very credible. Some of them are professors law enforcement scientists 332 00:28:43,360 --> 00:28:49,680 I mean it runs the gamut of people making these sort of claims for that reason. I think it's a very important 333 00:28:50,400 --> 00:28:57,040 Situation that we need to pay attention to in most of the high profile UFO cases deal with people who have been abducted 334 00:28:57,280 --> 00:29:01,040 There's also a move towards changing the term abducted into experiencer 335 00:29:01,440 --> 00:29:06,640 In order to move away from some of the stigma that we find when we look at abductions generally 336 00:29:06,960 --> 00:29:11,280 Oftentimes that stigma is presented in a way that conflicts with a lot of beliefs 337 00:29:11,360 --> 00:29:19,520 We see in today's society about appropriate behavior. So moving towards the term experiencer instead allows us to navigate away from some of that stigma 338 00:29:19,840 --> 00:29:25,360 And instead look at the validity of those experiences. I can just tell you there were some interesting reports 339 00:29:25,760 --> 00:29:28,480 Again, some of these were very credible people 340 00:29:29,360 --> 00:29:34,080 I can't say they were being abducted by aliens, but something happened to them that affected their lives 341 00:29:34,960 --> 00:29:36,960 Some of them as I recall had some interesting 342 00:29:37,600 --> 00:29:38,960 physical 343 00:29:38,960 --> 00:29:41,040 Signs on them of something that had occurred 344 00:29:41,360 --> 00:29:47,040 It was just a surreal moment for me because I'd always heard of abductions. They were always, you know, kind of 345 00:29:47,920 --> 00:29:57,360 Cool and sensational, but until I sat down with a woman whose husband was there believes her supports her and she is just 346 00:29:58,480 --> 00:30:02,400 So overcome with emotion and clearly some sort of trauma 347 00:30:03,040 --> 00:30:07,840 Uh, I had no choice but to believe something firmly happened to her 348 00:30:07,920 --> 00:30:16,080 As with phoenix the chestnut ridge or the hudson valley 349 00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:21,440 Visiting a place like franconia pushes the people at the heart of the subject to the front of my mind 350 00:30:22,880 --> 00:30:28,320 Betty hill later in life believed that her own taking was an innocent and benevolent one 351 00:30:28,960 --> 00:30:35,280 Betty passed away in 2004, but her story remains as much a mystery as it did when she was alive 352 00:30:35,440 --> 00:30:39,040 While dreams government manipulation and even simple 353 00:30:39,600 --> 00:30:44,560 Misidentification and outright lying have been offered up by skeptics as the cause for the hills abduction 354 00:30:45,040 --> 00:30:48,080 We still don't know what happened in 1961 355 00:30:49,360 --> 00:30:54,480 Despite this fact, I can't help but think something really did happen here all those years ago 356 00:30:55,040 --> 00:30:58,240 And regardless of how she might have felt about it in her winning years 357 00:30:58,560 --> 00:31:02,000 The event had to have been as baffling as it was terrifying 358 00:31:02,560 --> 00:31:09,280 So they put the sign up in 2011 to commemorate it, but I think it's kind of interesting just in general talking about abductions 359 00:31:09,760 --> 00:31:14,160 A lot of these people as we've found out talking to people it seems like they actually have trauma 360 00:31:14,400 --> 00:31:17,760 Some sort of almost like PTSD that they kind of deal with 361 00:31:18,400 --> 00:31:22,720 That having a story like this probably wouldn't do them any favors. That's what I was about to say 362 00:31:22,720 --> 00:31:26,720 It's not going to do them any good whatsoever. I mean, it's going to make probably a 363 00:31:27,440 --> 00:31:29,440 relatively 364 00:31:29,520 --> 00:31:33,200 I'm gonna say hard life, but it's going to make things harder. It's not going to make anything easier for them 365 00:31:33,280 --> 00:31:34,880 I don't know. I don't think it 366 00:31:34,880 --> 00:31:36,320 it does seem 367 00:31:36,320 --> 00:31:38,320 It does seem credible on the surface 368 00:31:38,800 --> 00:31:42,000 I mean, what about the other side of it to where you're trying to figure out? 369 00:31:43,360 --> 00:31:45,360 A maybe a more logical 370 00:31:45,680 --> 00:31:50,960 Terrestrial explanation for an abduction like Betty and Barney went through in my opinion 371 00:31:50,960 --> 00:31:55,040 I think a lot of them have perhaps trauma that they have dealt with 372 00:31:55,600 --> 00:32:00,240 Younger ages or whatever the case may be and a way of rationalizing it is perhaps saying it's 373 00:32:00,800 --> 00:32:04,400 extraterrestrial as opposed to saying it's somebody maybe close to you that may have hurt you 374 00:32:04,960 --> 00:32:06,960 I mean, what do you guys think the chances are that 375 00:32:08,080 --> 00:32:12,320 It was all the government and it was just a big experiment to see how maybe they would react 376 00:32:12,400 --> 00:32:16,480 And if they came out and talked about it, then how the the public would react to their story 377 00:32:16,960 --> 00:32:17,600 It's a 378 00:32:17,600 --> 00:32:21,760 Imagine it to people or imagine to people. I mean, it really could be it really could be 379 00:32:21,840 --> 00:32:25,360 Yeah, I think that's the thing about all of this is that there's an infinite amount of 380 00:32:26,000 --> 00:32:31,440 Possibility here. I mean you can literally throw something up and it could it could potentially be correct 381 00:32:31,680 --> 00:32:34,400 It could be the government working with aliens the aliens working with the government 382 00:32:34,400 --> 00:32:37,760 No aliens no government or any combination of of all of those 383 00:32:38,000 --> 00:32:42,480 There's probably people who have a lot more information about this than we do and that's that's what kind is 384 00:32:42,480 --> 00:32:47,520 I think frustrates a lot of people and I think in some ways that may happen to to Betty Hill as well 385 00:32:47,680 --> 00:32:53,440 Obviously, I didn't know her but people who did claim that, you know, she was very straight-edge and and all about kind of the 386 00:32:54,400 --> 00:32:58,480 Experience and trying to figure out what was happening. So maybe that's the case as well. I don't know 387 00:32:58,560 --> 00:33:02,640 But like I said, we're just sort of taking shots in the dark here. So every thread is so long 388 00:33:11,760 --> 00:33:15,920 Coming up on the final episode of on the trail of UFOs 389 00:34:47,520 --> 00:34:50,240 You